Friendly Fire on the Team Fortress Server

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:15 pm

Evernite has requested we enable friendly fire on the TF2 server. This would mean that your weapons would damage members of your own team. I'd like to know where the TF2 players in the guild stand on this.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:18 pm

hmmm im kinda wild with my pyro fire flinging.... well as long as you guys dont mind burning to death than im ok with it i guess

Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 397 Location: Austin, Tx

Tullen wrote:

Evernite has requested we enable friendly fire on the TF2 server. This would mean that your weapons would damage members of your own team. I'd like to know where the TF2 players in the guild stand on this.

Spies are unstoppable with FF on. I highly suggest not turning on FF. It severely unbalances the game in their favor.

Member Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 1152

Few things to note before you decide about FF setting.

Pyro flamethrower does not damage your own team.

Damage to your team isn't done in the same degree damage to enemies is, only a percentage of the damage you normally do will hit your teammate.

And the main reason I want to do this is so every class can't just shoot at all their own teammates to uncover spies. You technically CAN still do this, people on your team that you shoot on FF servers that are spies will not show an HP decrease when you hit them, but you still run the risk of pissing off/causing the death of your own team by randomly shooting people. Pyros can still safely run 'spy checks' though.

Those're the main things I can think of.

Member Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 1152

Ruy wrote:

Tullen wrote:

Evernite has requested we enable friendly fire on the TF2 server. This would mean that your weapons would damage members of your own team. I'd like to know where the TF2 players in the guild stand on this.

Spies are unstoppable with FF on. I highly suggest not turning on FF. It severely unbalances the game in their favor.

I'd agree if the recent changes to Pyros hadn't made them into a class that is much more widely played than it used to be. There are at least 1-3 Pyros every match in a 24 player server, that's more than enough people to uncover Spies and keep the balance.

Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 397 Location: Austin, Tx

Shige wrote:

Ruy wrote:

Tullen wrote:

Evernite has requested we enable friendly fire on the TF2 server. This would mean that your weapons would damage members of your own team. I'd like to know where the TF2 players in the guild stand on this.

Spies are unstoppable with FF on. I highly suggest not turning on FF. It severely unbalances the game in their favor.

I'd agree if the recent changes to Pyros hadn't made them into a class that is much more widely played than it used to be. There are at least 1-3 Pyros every match in a 24 player server, that's more than enough people to uncover Spies and keep the balance.

Spies are powerful enough without this huge buff to their class. I'd go for it, if all classes were buffed in some fashion with FF, but they are not. They become godlike with FF on every server I've been on with FF on. Even if it is a fraction of damage, the stigma still exists and it makes them too powerful.

Member Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 1152

The only reason or way they become godlike is because people are so used to being able to randomly shoot everyone on their team that they never take the time to notice the multitude of ways the developers have put in to detect and uncover spies.

Joined: Nov 19, 2005 Posts: 397 Location: Austin, Tx

Shige wrote:

The only reason or way they become godlike is because people are so used to being able to randomly shoot everyone on their team that they never take the time to notice the multitude of ways the developers have put in to detect and uncover spies.

Which, from a designer standpoint, are negligible compared to the benefits spies get. People do not have time to consider which of the 3 engineers standing against the wall is a spy. Sometimes, but rarely, the spy is named the same as you (if you're the same class). It's not enough of a hint. By the time the spy does his damage, your defenses are ineffective and you didn't have a chance to defend them against that spy due to the confusion.

Not to mention that since the internet has grown, many folks are casual players. They don't care who they shoot and are not as good as us older players who learned to play on both FF and non-FF. So, you get the (insert high damage class here) who will always mow down any teammate walking infront of him.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:39 pm

I am heavy weapons guy. I shoot anything that stands in my way.

Member Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 1152

Ruy wrote:

Shige wrote:

The only reason or way they become godlike is because people are so used to being able to randomly shoot everyone on their team that they never take the time to notice the multitude of ways the developers have put in to detect and uncover spies.

Which, from a designer standpoint, are negligible compared to the benefits spies get. People do not have time to consider which of the 3 engineers standing against the wall is a spy. Sometimes, but rarely, the spy is named the same as you (if you're the same class). It's not enough of a hint. By the time the spy does his damage, your defenses are ineffective and you didn't have a chance to defend them against that spy due to the confusion.

Not to mention that since the internet has grown, many folks are casual players. They don't care who they shoot and are not as good as us older players who learned to play on both FF and non-FF. So, you get the (insert high damage class here) who will always mow down any teammate walking infront of him.

The benefit of not having some random person who spends 3/4's of his time shooting his own teammate get the Spy kill is such a giant benefit? Pyros, which are now one of the more, if not arguably most, popular class at the moment are still able to do so.

The signs and hints devs dropped in to help you out are numerous and definitely can't be labeled 'negligible'. Off the top of my head, you can spot 3 classes immediately without even having to do any sort of analysis. 3 out of 9 classes for a Spy to disguise into have easily and immediately identifiable flags to show 'HI I ARE SPY.'

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:58 pm

Shige wrote:

The signs and hints devs dropped in to help you out are numerous and definitely can't be labeled 'negligible'. Off the top of my head, you can spot 3 classes immediately without even having to do any sort of analysis. 3 out of 9 classes for a Spy to disguise into have easily and immediately identifiable flags to show 'HI I ARE SPY.'

Which is why any spy who's played for more than an hour NEVER disguises as those classes. Moot point.

Member Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 1152

Then here come the subtle ones.

Engineers without wrenches out, most likely a Spy.

Snipers that are standing in one general spot but never scope, most likely a Spy.

People staring at the backs of your teammates, Spy.

People moving away from the front line, Spy.

Oh, and if you think someone's a Spy, it's pretty easy to follow him and go 'Hey, shoot your weapon.' And if he doesn't, ohmagod Spy!

Or you can always potshot someone you think is a Spy anyway, if his health doesnt go down, Spy.

Having to think in an FPS must be such a tiresome task, I know.

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:49 am

There is the issue of quite a few people on the Scalebane server not being hardcore FPS players as well Nite. They go on to have a good time, and being yelled at for shooting or killing a teammate by accident would probably not equate to that. Also, it would make the game significantly more difficult overall if you had to be ever worried about stepping into the line of your own teammate's fire as well as enemy fire. How often is there a Heavy blocking a small doorway or corridor with a medic on him raining death on anyone who walks by? While I wouldn't mind seeing how it plays out for a week or so, long term I don't think friendly fire is right for the guild server.

Member Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 1152

I'm not trying to get it put in permanently, FF servers as a whole are so few and far between that I wanted to give it a shot on our own and see how many people like it. I find it enjoyable on any class, though I don't have a problem aiming and avoiding my own teammates fire. If I do happen to run across it, it's my fault. :p

I think a lot of people could find it fun, even for a short period of time, and I figured I'd suggest it and try to get it running for at least a few days.

I just think the idea that it makes Spies so completely overpowered that nobody can kill them is absurd and I'll argue that into the ground to prove it wrong.

Senior Officer Joined: Jul 26, 2005 Posts: 2053

I voted no. My aim, although improving, still sux. Who here that plays, besides evernite, would want to be on my team with FF on? LOL

HOWEVER, I would like to try it one nite when all of us are on, just for the fun of it.

I have found that often, when no one but mainly baners are on, its fun to wack peeps with melee weapons. Nite and I beat the hell out of each other last nite with all the different clases melee weapons. Heavies punches hurt like hell Smile